We hope you enjoy our in depth discussion of the movie Looper and some of our favourite depictions of time travel.
Topics Discussed and/or Spoiled
Looper, Futurama, Pastwatch, Left Behind, the course of human history
More theology! I can’t speak to Looper, but I see an interesting theological overtone in time travel- God is an atemporal being, and we literally can not understand what it would be to perceive the world outside of linear time. Time travel stories are the closest we have to seeing from God’s point of view. Also, Creedal Christianity contains a sort-of time travel story, the harrowing of hell. Jesus’ redemptive death was an a-temporal event that in some way we can’t imagine was able to affect the past as well as the future. Catholics would say the same thing about the Immaculate Conception of Mary- she was created without original sin for and through the redemptive power of the Paschal Mystery, despite the temporal event of her conception being before the temporal event of Good Friday
So this is Rachel talking–The issue of God’s time vs. our time I think goes beyond even the events you’re talking about. My systematic theology prof liked to bring up the reference to Christ in Revelation as the “Lamb slain before the foundation of the world.” That somehow the reality of the incarnation/death/resurrection of Christ is realized in particular time in the economy of salvation but its effects exist outside of time. That is what the Harrowing of Hell is about, I suppose. There’s a great book my Madeleine L’Engle (though the title escapes me at the moment) where a young woman goes back in time 3000 years. And yet, she’s told that she can still pray to Christ. The affects of the Incarnation are still valid. This is a long way of saying, I absolutely agree.
Yeah, exactly! Or that the Eucharist is the present participation in the Last Supper, the Paschal Mystery (2 past events), and the Eschaton (future event)- which are all kind of the…same thing? Anyway, to bring it back to the original point, for Catholics, Mary is Sally Sparrow from “Blink.” Also, my Rachel wanted to mention she 100% agrees with you re: Stephen Moffat re Russel T Davies.
I tried to be Switzerland for so long! I tried to stay above the Dr Who fan wars. But season 6 was sooooo stupid!
Okay, is the this the right place to post a long, detailed rant about why season 6 was a doomed conceptual failure? Cause I have one!
Go for it! (I love how this began as a deep theological discussion and has become a rant against Stephen Moffat–man we miss you guys!)
Okay, I’ll try to keep this brief. One thing I have to give season 6 is that it made me “get” Matt Smith and 11. Through season 5, I thought of 11 as just a quirker version of 10, not a radically different performance like 9 to 10. Then, watching him interact with the kids in the last 2 Christmas specials actually seemed really unique and different. The Eureka moment was actually in “closing time” or “after hours” or whatever, the one with him investigating Cyberman at the mall with his old roommate Craig. At one point he is moving in to kiss Craig to distract him, and 11’s like, puckering his lips our and his face is turning red- he looked like an 8 year old about to kiss someone. 9 or 10? They’d have been frenching Craig in a second. And I realized- 11 is an 8 year old. He’s a huge, overgrown kid. He’s Peter Pan. Other stuff started to click for me too- his not understanding why Amy and Rory didn’t want bunk beds, for example. Even his relationship with Amy- he’s Peter Pan and she’s Wendy- all she’ll ever be for him is a fun playmate, who he wants to have adventures with as long as he’s not distracted by a shiny object somewhere else. And now I dig 11! That’s a great interpretation of the Doctor!
But it doesn’t work for a @#$% love story as the driving narrative of your season! The overall arc of season 6 was River-Doctor driven, but I never go that the Doctor was “in love” with River. Also, as a parent the whole second half of Amy and Rory happy to noodle around and have adventures post-baby disappearance- BS. It didn’t ave nearly the effect on them or their relationship with the Doctor that it should have.
Finally…River Song. Oy. What a, like, standard fan-fiction Mary Sue character she turned out to be. I loved her in Silence in the Library! I loved the tragic pathos of the reverse-timeline love story! But that’s been dumped for “the adventures of the Doctor and his awesome in every way girlfriend.”
Season 5 had this, like, core emotional arc of Amy’s choosing between adventures with Peter Pan and Growing Up with Rory. Season 6 had no real core, season-long emotional story. Season 7…we’ll see.
You brought out some VERY interesting time travel ideas, the one that struck me the most being the idea of time travel stories often being a reflection of wanting to correct a fallen world. Love it! I’ve written a number of time travel stories, and even though that theme is right there in a number of my stories . . . I never thought of it in that context. If I had, it might have changed some of how I wrote them slightly. Now, I want to go back in time and correct that . . .
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